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There’s Nothing To Fear But Government Itself – Freedom Feens Live Radio Archive

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MWD tests out his new solar-powered satellite Internet connection from near Yellowstone. It rocks. Neema and MWD have two guests today: First hour is Alex Fidel of Free Thought Radio. Alex tells us how the government is trying to stomp out free speech even faster than usual, and then Alex talks about Lloyd Kaufman of Troma Films. Second hour is Ben Stone of the Bad Quaker podcast. Topics include: Internet to replace government by 2020, printable drugs and pharmaceuticals, how e-vapes are helping Michael evolve, and the horror of a guy setting himself on fire on the DC Capital Mall.

Stateless Sweets has yummy gifts for the holidays!

13 thoughts on “There’s Nothing To Fear But Government Itself – Freedom Feens Live Radio Archive

  1. I find your views inconsistent.

    Marc Stevens: risk life/freedom in court opposing government = bad
    Silk Road: risk life/freedom on internet opposing government = good
    Michael Hastings: risk life/freedom in media opposing government = good

    I can’t seem to determine the pattern here, when are we supposed to act upon our beliefs in opposing government? I see many avenues in opposing government and they’re all dangerous, so why are you coming down on fighting the government in court? It’s like you’re saying that we should bend over and take it when it comes to any face to face situation with the government.

    Maybe you guys can discuss what qualifies someone as an anarchist. Is it just when the cop turns his back, we can whisper under our breaths “pig” and that makes us an anarchist? While I don’t want to glorify statist nationalism, at least they’re willing to die for what they believe in and yet we must meekly submit to any threat they through at us.

    1. The difference is: Marc tells other people to do it, and doesn’t give them enough info to make an educated choice. Marc isn’t risking his freedom, he’s risking other people’s freedom. That caller who is facing 45 years in prison from taking Marc’s advice confirms that thesis of mine.

      I said it 15 months ago: if Marc had a solid disclaimer at the top of each hour of his show, I’d have no issue with him. Marc laughed at the idea of a disclaimer.

      Larken Rose did Marc Stevens-type maneuvering in court but did it in his own case, not someone else’s case. Larken spent a year of his own life in prison. I like Larken. I’d add him to your list of what I think is “good.”

      Ian Freeman is also a good guy. And he’s done some Marc Stevens-type maneuvering in court, with Marc’s help. Ian said it didn’t work and Ian currently has a lawyer on his Robin Hood case.

      MWD

      1. Thats not true, Marc does the exact same things in his own life. He doesn’t have a drivers license and he doesn’t register his car. He faces these traffic violations the same as the rest of us. He does exactly what he preaches. Now your point seems to be that by telling people to do what he does, he’s risking their freedom as well. We’re all adults though.

        “I said it 15 months ago: if Marc had a solid disclaimer at the top of each hour of his show, I’d have no issue with him. Marc laughed at the idea of a disclaimer. ” OK, I wasn’t listening to you guys back then, but I remember Marc talking about how he received flack for not telling people he wasn’t a lawyer. He actually did 2 episodes where he said he wasn’t a lawyer to every caller. I think the message got through, we are all now aware that facing off to the government puts our personal life and freedom at risk.

        “Larken Rose did Marc Stevens-type maneuvering in court “. Not true. I’ve gone through Larkens material as well and his approach was to use the merits of the tax code to his (dis)advantage. Marc doesn’t argue the merits in this fashion at all, but challenge the jurisdiction. I do agree that both are judicial activists. Larken being in the fashion of Schiff and Marc was in the fashion of Spooner.

        “Ian Freeman is also a good guy. ” I agree, but look at what happened to Ademo when he tried his own variety of defense as well. Should Ademo and Ian stop suggesting people follow their lead? Chalking and video taping can get people into trouble.

        I like your guys show, but I saw no benefit from denouncing someone elses methods to achieve freedom. The Silk Road, Michael Hastings, Ian Freeman and Marc are all trying different approaches to solve the same problem. We don’t have to take these avenues ourselves, but you shouldn’t be siding with the establishment over another voluntaryist.

        Honestly, I’d like to hear you guys do a show about who gets to call themselves an anarchist. If we merely hold an opinion on something, I don’t think that qualifies to call themselves that particular thing. Hey, I’m an Army Ranger! Actions are what matter and unless people are doing something, anything really, then I don’t think they can rightfully wear that mantle.

        1. >He actually did 2 episodes where he said he wasn’t a lawyer to every caller.

          He did it sarcastically. Go listen again. He was laughing while doing it. And Ian Freeman (who runs LRN, the network Marc’s on), asked me to write what I thought was a reasonable disclaimer for Marc to use on his show. Marc’s response, I don’t recall the exact wording, but it was basically a clean variation on “fuck that.”

          I don’t remember the exact wording of my disclaimer but it was something along the lines of “Marc Stevens is not a lawyer. He is a legal activist. Your mileage may vary if you follow his advice, especially in felony cases.”

          I honestly think if Marc Stevens ever does a disclaimer, he should hire a lawyer to write it. I doubt he’d ever do that though.

          >I think the message got through, we are all now aware that facing off to the government puts our personal life and freedom at risk.

          The average person hearing Marc’s show for the first time now has no idea what Marc said 15 months ago.

          >“Larken Rose did Marc Stevens-type maneuvering in court “. Not true. I’ve gone through Larkens material as well and his approach was to use the merits of the tax code to his (dis)advantage. Marc doesn’t argue the merits in this fashion at all, but challenge the jurisdiction. I do agree that both are judicial activists. Larken being in the fashion of Schiff and Marc was in the fashion of Spooner.

          OK, well, maybe not the minutia of Marc, but it’s the same in the sense of “representing yourself and not playing the game.” Or more precisely, “playing the game to the letter of how the law should be read, but not in a way they’ll accept.”

          >“Ian Freeman is also a good guy. ” I agree, but look at what happened to Ademo when he tried his own variety of defense as well. Should Ademo and Ian stop suggesting people follow their lead?

          I’ve argued with Ian directly about the wisdom of what he has done in court in the past. Ian said “I can’t NOT do it, Michael.” But Ian doesn’t offer legal advice. Marc can say all day long that he doesn’t, but he does. Also, Ian has a lawyer in his current case.

          >I like your guys show, but I saw no benefit from denouncing someone else’s methods to achieve freedom.

          Shit man, what part of “I have no problem with Marc doing what he does in his own life, my issue is that he’s presenting it as effective legal counsel to people who don’t know the difference” don’t you get?

          I’m curious, did Marc send you? I see your name all over his forum. 15 months ago he sent a different guy, who was also polite like you. When that didn’t make me “see the light”, he sent people with foul mouths and threats. When I blocked them, Marc implied that I was violating free speech by not allowing a brawl on my site. If he asked you to come over here and post, you should know that’s what happened last year.

          >Honestly, I’d like to hear you guys do a show about who gets to call themselves an anarchist.

          That’s the second time you’ve used that Straw Man fallacy. We never said Marc’s not an anarchist. I do think he is an anarchist. I just don’t like that he plays lawyer and it can hurt people’s lives, when he doesn’t offer enough disclaimer. A sarcastic disclaimer on two shows last year is not a disclaimer for someone tuning in for the first time now. A sarcastic disclaimer on two shows last year on a show that has run for eight years is the equivalent of fine print in the middle of page 75 in a 500-page contract.

          MWD

        2. You and Marc should realize that if I occasionally mention him in passing, having different people arguing the same points over and over on here only drives up Google rankings to send people searching his name to my sites instead of his.
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Striesand_effect

          That happened for over six months last time he did this.

          You should also listen, if you haven’t heard it, to the guy who says he’s facing 45 years from following Marc’s advice. It’s 4 minutes into this show:
          http://www.freedomfeens.com/2013/10/05/congressman-alan-grayson-says-freedom-feens-as-a-dirty-word-and-the-snow-must-go-on-freedom-feens-live-radio-archive/

          And Jillian would likely be in prison for decades if she’d taken Marc’s advice. She hired a lawyer and got out with a modest fine.

          Him advising her (she’s a friend of mine) 15 months ago is what started all this. Did you read my “open letter to Marc Stevens”?:
          http://www.libertarianpunk.com/2012/06/an-open-letter-to-marc-stevens-on-why-his-no-state-project-show-probably-does-more-harm-than-good/

          It used to be in the top Google results for Marc’s name for a while, because he gave this so much attention.

          As I said 15 months ago, “Our office now considers this matter closed.” Just because some guy called into my show doesn’t mean I am going out of my way to bring it up.

          MWD

        3. >Thats not true, Marc does the exact same things in his own life. He doesn’t have a drivers license and he doesn’t register his car. He faces these traffic violations the same as the rest of us. He does exactly what he preaches.

          OK, but that doesn’t mean people aren’t thinking he’s qualified to give legal advice in felony cases. Marc Stevens’ methods are not good legal advice. They are activism.

          Those who crap on the idea of ever hiring actual lawyers will be cursing that decision when they end up in prison. Hiring an actual lawyer is not “joining the State.” (MANY of Marc Steven’s true believer fans accused me of being a statist when I said “There are times when hiring a lawyer is a good idea.”)

          When you’re going into the belly of the beast, you need someone who speaks beast. Marc Stevens does not speak beast. Marc Stevens speaks “how things SHOULD work in LibPar” (a libertarian paradise). That doesn’t work well in some courts. Generally, the more time someone is facing in prison, the more that kind of stuff will add years to your time.

          Most of Marc’s “success” stories are misdemeanors and citations. I know there’s one guy who says Marc got him off a felony. But I said it before, I’ll say it again: I think there are a few guys in prison somewhere doing pushups and tattooing Marc’s name and Bible passages about vengeance on their bodies, a la “Cape Fear.”

          I also wonder how many of the success stories are from courts where it was a justice of the peace rather than a judge. JOPs are often not attorneys, judges usually are. JOPs are usually good ole boys elected or appointed by their buddies, and when challenged on the law, may tend to go, “Um, OK.” Whereas some judges who are attorneys ain’t fuckin’ around, have giant egos, and REALLY hate to be challenged by non-lawyers acting pro se who question the judge’s “Authoritah.”

          That species of judge, when challenged with LibPar questioning, may throw you in prison in a heartbeat, laugh, then go have a nice lunch.

          I hope that the Cape Fear thing doesn’t happen. But I think if Marc had a reasonable disclaimer it would go a long way with someone who fights a felony with Marc’s techniques, and ends up in prison, from seeking vengeance. Having a good disclaimer would also be the reasonable thing to do, based on the guy who called in the other day who is facing 45 years in prison from doing what Marc Stevens told him to do. And based on how Jillian got off so lightly hiring a lawyer, and how it likely would have gone much worse if she’d taken Marc’s advice. (Based on what Randy England said. Randy is a defense attorney who’s in criminal court every weekday of his life, he’s also a former prosecutor, and a good-guy anarcho-capitalist.)

          But, based on my experiences with Marc Stevens 15 months ago, I doubt Marc will ever add a reasonable disclaimer on every show. And that’s my only issue with him: no disclaimer. I said it before, I’m saying it now, and when the next person who is facing prison from Marc’s advice calls our show, I’ll probably have to say it all again.

          MWD

  2. WE believe that he means that government loves you, and it wants to forgive you if you just let the government into your heart.

    -Butters

    1. HAHA, love South park. Just wish they would come full circle and stop dancing around the edges. Woody Harrelson has said he’s an anarchist, always liked him. Not sure if Trey and Matt are anarchists or not.

  3. Good to have Ben on, seems like when it’s you and neema both on, he lets you guys go and waits til you or neema ask him somehing. He doesn’t come in and break chairs
    Over people’s heads.

    Feens are blowing up, I wonder who will say “freedom Feens” next. Have you noticed an uptick in traffic?

    Yellowstone is on my bucket list, if u feel like sharing, post some pics of the place. I hope I can make it out there for some over night hiking, shame hey make you get permission and permit the campsites. Which is why I stealth camp in a hammock, also don’t want to be a victim of some criminal who could find me at a campsite but never would in the forest.

    I found a round that is good ammo but not too expensive, good enough for training and defense without breaking the bank for either. I get me for about .40-.50 a round for 223 and .45-.55 for .308. It’s made by a company called prvi, I select the heavier loads 75gr an 175 gr. don’t like having one ammo for training and one for defense, multiple zeros. I know it’s the prices above ain’t cheap but they will never come down to what they were 5-10 years ago. Won’t see an improvement until we can print bullets and afford those printers.

    With regard to drug printing, I wonder if the printing would be the same as the smoked plant.

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